Do you think fathers should have a say if a woman gets an abortion?

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Postby Space Lion » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:52 pm

I understand what you're saying honey I really do, and you're right I have loads of emotion wrapped up in this subject.  That is why I said in my first post that I wasn't a good person to ask an opinion on this from.

Something you said though, while to you it underlines your point I can use it to underline mine.  I believe that part of that 'control over her body at all times' that you talk about is making sure that if she doesn't want a baby that she doesn't get preganent to begin with.  There are too many different forms of birth control out there for women to continue to be stupid and then make their babies pay the price of that stupidity.


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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Tue Aug 28, 2007 4:39 pm

Yeah, but those women wouldn't make good mothers anyway; or good mothers to be. Those are the ones who I mentioned who drink, smoke and take drugs during pregnancy so their babies are born physically disabled, sometimes seriously ill, being hooked on heroin and alcohol, sometimes even dying. Better aborted than going thru all that.
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Postby Space Lion » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:39 pm

You realize though don't you that the women you are talking about, 'Little Miss Crack Whore' as you called them usually aren't the ones having abortions.  Abortion is exspecive here and most of the drunks and drug whores that you are talking about can't afford to get one so they have still end up giving birth to a drug addicted or seriously ill baby.
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:45 pm

I do realise that, yes; and was saying it would be better if they had abortions rather than did that. Or better yet, were sterilised.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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Postby Space Lion » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:57 pm

The last part I agree with 110%
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:18 pm

Why should they have fertility if they're only going to abuse it?
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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Re: Do you think fathers should have a say if a woman gets an abortion?

Postby Devon » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:52 am

I dont give a fuck if she has to "carry" the baby or not...

The father has EVERY right to want her to have the baby and give it to him.
Cause by all means  HAVING the baby is the easiest damn part.
Raising it is a whole other story. Thats where the challenge comes in.


Now in cases of mothers on drugs and alcohol....
I'd much rather be aborted than born with such problems...

But in the case IKG is referring to  I believe the father has every right
to want the abortion prevented....
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:15 am

No, he hasn't. Cuz until men can have babies, he has no right to force a woman to yield control of her body to him.

And would you advocate a father forcing the mother to HAVE an abortion? Didn't think so. It cuts both ways, remember; allow one, allow the other.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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Postby Space Lion » Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:17 am

You know it bothers me that basically you are saying that a father has no rights at all concerning his child until that child is born.
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Re: Do you think fathers should have a say if a woman gets an abortion?

Postby Devon » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:46 pm

Fathers have rights to...

I've heard too many times......
It's her body  she can do what she wants with it.    
NO she cant....or shouldnt be allowed to...


What makes her so fucken special....Oooh gee she has to CARRY
the baby for 9 months and go through labor and delivery which
on average is 12-72 hrs   or whatever...Then its all over. Raising a baby is 18 years.
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:29 pm

Women have far more rights disallowed than men. It's simple as that. And just as a man shouldn't be forced to donate his sperm if he didn't want to, a woman shouldn't be forced to give birth. I'd feel the same if a woman had tricked a man into fathering a child and then was demanding money from him.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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Postby Space Lion » Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:51 pm

I'm not sure what rights you are talking about when you say "Women have far more rights disallowed than men".

Now then you have made your opinion on abortion rather well known.  Let me ask you something a little more indepth about your stance.  Do you think there should be a cut of time that after a woman has reached a certain gestation that she can't have and abortion?

The reason I ask is medically a child born at 26 weeks gestation has a relitively good chance of living and growing to be a happy health adult.  Most medical professinals will say that a child born before 26 weeks gestation has little chance of surviving.  In the state of Texas it is legal for a woman to have an abortion right up till her 25th week.
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:03 am

I would make it on a case by case basis after the 25th week; sometimes there are medical emergencies where a woman would lose her life if she gave birth after that, whether by Caesaren or natural birth. I read a case about a woman with a weak heart who was offered abortion; she chose to have the child, and her life was saved, altho narrowly.

Which brings me to a question for you; if there was such a case, before 25 weeks of a woman who would die if she birthed a baby, would you think she should abort? She has children already.

I would still say that if a fetus is hideously deformed, or very much damaged by the mother taking drugs or drinking to excess, it's kinder to abort rather than force the child to endure birth, then to be subjected to endless suffering til expiration. True, some might survive, but before 25 weeks (and a lot of drug babies are born premature) the chances are way lower. A 23 year old fetus, for example, isn't developed enough to survive in a normal situation, let alone if pumped full of alcohol and drugs.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:06 am

And yeah, I know there are 23 weekers who have survived, just that the chances are really low. In fact, there was a huge row about doctors saying that they didn't think it fair to automatically try to revive these kind of babies, not out of heartlessness, but cuz shoving tubes down their throats and pumping their chests damaged their paper thin skin and caused much suffering when they only usually died anyway, and dying in  their parents arms was kinder.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

ImageImageImage

RIP Rocker And Legend. 1974 - 2008. Friend And Karaoke King.
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Postby Space Lion » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:52 pm

I've acyually know women with in both of those type cases.  

One found out at her sonogram to find out if she was having a boy or a girl that the back of the baby's head had never formed.  There was no possible way the baby would live even if it made it to term.

The other mother was 23 weeks when her kidneys shut down.  They had to put her on dialasis or she would die.  However, dialasis would kill the baby.  Even knowing this she begged and pleaded with the doctors to save her baby.  In the end her husband had her declaired unfit to make her medical desisions and told the doctors to abort the baby.  

Do I think those late term abortions were wrong, no.  What I was talking about are these stupid teens that convince themselves that if the don't think about it it will go away.  Then when they can no longer hide it from Mommy and Daddy, go have an abortion.


And sweetie I promise I'm not trying to be a bitch or sound like I'm going off on you.  I'm actually true want to talk about both sides of this subject.  We both know though that after five miscarriages in eight years I'm a tad bit emotional about it.  

Like I said I just don't want you thinking I'm picking on you just because we on different sides of this issue.
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:19 am

Don't worry, I know you're not. And I hope you don't think I am; I am not, either. *phew*

And yeah, those teens irritate me too; I just don't think it's the best thing to do to force them to have the baby. They'd be terrible mothers if they keep it, and the baby isn't necessarily going to get adopted if not.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

ImageImageImage

RIP Rocker And Legend. 1974 - 2008. Friend And Karaoke King.
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Postby Space Lion » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:04 pm

One thing I have realized from this is just how different things are here vs. were you live.  You keep talking about children's homes and how so many infants aren't adopted.  That is completely different then the way things are here.  

There haven't been true orphanages here since, I think it was about the early 1950s.  Now days the children in foster care are children that have been taken from their birth families for one reason or another.  Take the boy that Tim and I are adopting for example.  He along with his eight siblings were taken away from their birth parents because of horrid neglect.  

The other side of that though is that you can open the paper to the classified ads any day of the week and find ads placed by couples looking to adopt a newborn.  Most of these couples are willing to pay the birth mother's medical AND housing until the baby is born.  Then they pay all of the court costs for the adoption.  You're looking at upwards of 15,000 minimum there.  All the birth mother has to do is stay off of drugs and booze until the baby is born.

I actually know of a chick that everytime she gets preganent she answers one of those ads.  She is my age and has given six infants up for adoption.  Each one she chose the family and the adoptive parents were there when the baby was born.
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Postby The Anti-Crisst » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:50 am

It's the same in America for autistic, disabled and Downs kids I think; sadly, people just want perfect kids. And I'm sure babies get adopted, but not older kids as much.

In any case, it must be easier to adopt abroad anywhere, look at Angelina Jolie and Madonna.
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This year, I'm going to join our American cousins and celebrate Thanksgiving the old fashioned way. By which I mean I'm going to invite all my neighbours round for an enormous feast, kill them all and then take their land.

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RIP Rocker And Legend. 1974 - 2008. Friend And Karaoke King.
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Postby snagrom6 » Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:23 pm

Eric Singer @ Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:50 pm wrote:In any case, it must be easier to adopt abroad anywhere, look at Angelina Jolie and Madonna.


If you've got the cabbage, you can do whatever you want apparently. And the only thing I can say on this is women should not use abortion as a means of birth control at all. If there are medical problems or whatever each case can be evaluated seperately.
Somewhere on this globe, every ten seconds, there is a woman giving birth to a child. She must be found and stopped."
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Postby Space Lion » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:45 am

I honestly don't know much about international adoption.  It wasn't something Tim and I ever thought about.  In fact about all I know is from the stand point of a medical professinal that has been a part of the treatment team on internataionally adopted children, and I can tell you honestly it is kinda scary.

I don't know how many times I've done lab work on these kids that are suppose to be health only to find out that they a fatel illnesses or defects.  About one in five of the children I saw that were adopted from China had Hep C.  One had a heart defect (that I can't spell) and would only live a few more months without major open heart surgery. I know of two children that were adopted from Russia that ended up being HIV positive.  

These children have every right to be adopted and to be raised by loving and supportive families.  However, I think those families have the right to know exactly what they are getting into.
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